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Nightrider78 [The Speedies] Saturday 4.Nov 07:01, 2017
Ok, thanks, I read somewhere, the game would be split into two divisions in order to fulfill the wishes of all new candidate-teammanagers, but maybe those plans could only be implemented into the 2019-season. Or my English was just not good enough to really understand what I was reading, but anyhow, to all of you: Succes in the coming 2018-season.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Tuesday 31.Oct 23:32, 2017
Hi John and Nightrider. Thanks for the interest!

It's a bit late for 2018 as we're expanding the number of teams way past earlier league size and places are long gone. However, given it's very format this is a game which will just go on indefinately - I'll get back to you before the 2019-season and you'll have dibbs on whatever places might open up then.

johnpnewman [Road Rash] Thursday 26.Oct 14:33, 2017
I would be interested in the fantasy manager game as well. How do get to participate?

Nightrider78 [The Speedies] Tuesday 24.Oct 13:52, 2017
Hi, I am very interested in joining this fantasy manager game. Is there a chance to participate in the coming 2018-season?

fjellda [El pistolero] Tuesday 17.Oct 12:37, 2017
I'm down for the 2018 fantasy. Just saying.

boris03 [Cycling lions] Thursday 12.Oct 08:42, 2017
We had 15 rounds in pre-draft I think

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Wednesday 11.Oct 13:02, 2017
Very sad to hear about Trym. I hope he can recover from his health issues and get his life on track!
Please, someone send him a word from me!

About our game, totally agree with our SF manger, Logreid The Captain... :)
With the riders available from the two teams plus the unattached riders (both, the current and the ones who will be released from the teams) the new DS will have plenty of field to build a strong squads!

I don't remember how was done when i, Trym, Boris and Neko started. !5, 20 rounds in the pre-draft?

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Wednesday 11.Oct 12:14, 2017
Trym/Team Sky sadly confirmed as disbanding due to health issues. That means we can and seven managers and also that the base of free riders for pre-draft will be better. I?m leaning towards a clean pre-draft from unattached riders and no special priviliges in main draft for new managers due to this.

Back soon to shore both new participants plus firm suggestion for drafts.

Tomas [Second Coming] Monday 9.Oct 23:59, 2017
Email info sent on a PM.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Monday 9.Oct 23:27, 2017
I?m basically waiting for Trym before finalizing new entrants and how to bring them into the game. Two teams leaving rather than one will make a difference.

I?ve sent him a tweet, but if you could also check for email that would be great Tomas. No one has him on Facebook?

Tomas [Second Coming] Monday 9.Oct 18:19, 2017
Regarding divisions - all riders will compete in the same races, and we'll fight for the same riders - so if its second division or mid-table shouldnt make a difference.

Also this years winning team, Boris The Tiger, joined a year later then the starters.

JOSEDIN [SERVA LA BARI] Monday 9.Oct 17:52, 2017
If there are enough new managers, it might be easier to set up a new second league and promote/relegate managers based on the season's performance

If I leave this comment echoed by (zKobalt [FruitnOats]) do not hesitate to count on my presence to play

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Monday 9.Oct 14:27, 2017
Tomas - do you have contact deets for Trym? I think I've tried texting him in earlier drafts with it being the wrong TrymDawg

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 8.Oct 14:17, 2017
any sign of life from Trym?

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Sunday 8.Oct 10:10, 2017
like american draft

zKobalt [FruitnOats] Sunday 8.Oct 04:58, 2017
At this stage, I'd be able to do those drafts on those weekends, maybe not stay up for all of the draft but definitely for the start or end of the draft. Can you explain how the draft works, is it like American sports drafts where we wait for people to select riders one at a time, or more like an auction where managers bid for riders?

If there are enough new managers, it might be easier to set up a new second league and promote/relegate managers based on the season's performance.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Saturday 7.Oct 22:57, 2017
And then there were 7 :P

sylvainm [sylvainm] Saturday 7.Oct 22:03, 2017
As I said somewhere else, interessed to join :)

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Saturday 7.Oct 11:38, 2017
A total sum of 25 draft picks in the pre+main draft in January is fair. They can compile a complete squad with max budget or leave some room and wage budget for June-draft - as I always try to do.

In the case of new managers setting wage of their new picks too low and many get stolen in main draft, we have a backstop of extra picks if team size is less than 20 after draft is completed if many riders are stolen during it.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Saturday 7.Oct 11:16, 2017
This could be an alternative way to compensate the fantasy newbs. They won't be able to get as many top class riders at reasonable wages as the old managers, but we could give them 30 drafts in total so they can somewhat compensate with quantity. I don't know about the rest of you, but I won't be able to reach 30 with my planned contract renewals, assuming 8 drafts each in the main draft.

Assassin [TheTrueAssassins] Saturday 7.Oct 10:23, 2017
When i came in at start of this year you gave me 8 free drafts so maybe somewhere between 8 and 15 because i did ok from 8.

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Saturday 7.Oct 03:43, 2017
Well Logreid you took your time wisely... :)

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Saturday 7.Oct 01:16, 2017
Ritle - my point exactly.

I was lucky enough to trade Chaves into my team before the 2015-Vuelta against Berhane.I basked in Chaves' 2015-Vuelta plus his glorious 2016-season before discovering that a wage of 50 was too low to protect him from stealing. The options I considered for replacing him was Bonifazio, Ulissi and Trentin. Landed on the latter as I love his riding style and ability to do well in both hilly and cobbled one-day races plus poach stage wins from time to time in GTs. Was disappointed with his points tally for the spring as he rode bravely in the service of his team leaders as always - #ReleaseTheBaldingMatteo for the second half of the season and upcoming move to Orica and subsequent points tally is luck more than anything - especially given Esteban's season. But again it's about putting yourself in the best position to get lucky by building strenght in depth and not having a team either placing top or bottom three depending one the season of one-two riders.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Saturday 7.Oct 01:09, 2017
Secondly - how to fold new managers into the game:

So there will definitely be a pre-draft where the new managers will get a set number of drafts from unattached riders. I would also say it's fair that these can be traded with managers on existing teams up until the main draft as per boris points out was done last time.

Last time we introduced new managers was at the start of 2016, they got 15 picks in the pre-draft and 10 in the subsequent main draft. Still not sure what numbers will be this time, but shouldn't be too much difference.

New managers can't expect to place at the top of the table after the end of the first half of their entry season - but the four managers who entered at the start of 2016 are currently placed 1st, 2nd, 11th and 15th of 17. So I'd say there's every chance to make a decent fist of it in short-to-medium time.

The key to success is to build a balanced team with strength in depth. Have a look at the current top teams, and the three strongest riders are T.Dumouilin, Mollema, Viviani - Landa, Roglic, Naesen - Quintana, Costa, Calmejean. Kristian's exiting team with Froome, Nibali, Cavendish, Contador and Kittel is 8th from 17.

The new managers get an advantage to sign freely before everyone is the pre-draft. They also get the advantage of arriving with an unused wage budget and the possibility to save a lot of that to make steals in the main window from existing managers with strained budgets from expensive signings on long contracts. I do concur that it's fair to explore some possibilities of tweaking the system slightly in January to give them a further edge or two given the big number of new entrants - but I don't think THAT much is needed for them to have a more or less level playing field in time.

ritlefant [Ritlefant] Saturday 7.Oct 00:54, 2017
Like Chaves was a big loss... Been injured since most of the time...

Assassin [TheTrueAssassins] Saturday 7.Oct 00:48, 2017
Like i said bois, all is fine when Partykjepp is in charge :)

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Saturday 7.Oct 00:46, 2017
Ok - so first let's start to lock down surefire new participants.

Already surefire entrants:
Fjellda (we'll just call in a bomb threat for his cruise liner in draft weekends)
NateDawg/De Adelaar
JohnJackJoe

sker - Are you ready to commit?

zKobalt - You have dibs on a place, but I'm worried about ability to participate given time difference. As stated - pre-draft would take place from 17:00 CEST onwards on Friday 5th. It would be expected of the new managers to complete 90 (I think) numbered drafts within two hours. And then it would be expected for people to be more or less available until 23:00 CET on the Friday and 10-23 on Saturday and Sunday to complete the main draft. Again, I'll be more than happy to act on your behalf if you can stay up for some parts and supply me with instructions for the rest. However, I lost Esteban Chaves and Jakub Marekczo in short order in last January's draft and if I'd supplied someone with a ranked list in advance I wouldn't have been able to give proper instructions for that scenario. On the other hands, doing all-nighters or very early mornings two weekends of the year isn't unsustainable either - so I'm leaving it up to you.

Aragonite - there is a place for you if you want one.

zKobalt [FruitnOats] Friday 6.Oct 16:13, 2017
An idea I could suggest if everyone wants to keep the existing fantasy structure is that the existing owners must put a certain number of decent riders up for selection and new owners would build their teams from that. The new owners would select the riders they want and would be forced to honour the existing contract and wages for certain riders. The criteria could be that riders ranked between 10-30 in FC rankings must be put up for the expansion owners.

My personal preference is to start afresh, either with a completely new league for new managers separate to the existing structure. But I'm sure the admins have a better understanding than I do at this stage having played it for a number of years now.

sker [Team Paracarri] Thursday 5.Oct 21:55, 2017
As a new player joining a long running game I would not expect to be competitive right away, what is more important to me is that the gap between new and old team can be recovered in reasonable time.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 5.Oct 21:05, 2017
Idea:
The 6 new managers could be allowed to steal by offering a rider let's say 1.75 times his old wage in the pre-draft, as oppose to the normal 2.0.

This way the old managers are on equal terms, and the new managers won't be at such a disadvantage anymore. Except it would favor those managers with a lot of short-term contracts, because of the rule below:

"Managers can also increase the wages (and extend contracts) of up to four riders on non-expired contracts ahead of both the winter draft and the summer draft."

But we could change it from 4 to 6 in this instance to give the oldies a chance to adjust before the new managers' pre-draft.

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Thursday 5.Oct 13:50, 2017
I agree with you.

Logreid, take your time. :)

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 5.Oct 13:28, 2017
We could have 30 teams even, but only if starting from scratch so that everyone has equal opportunities. Problem is how to add the new teams. Specifically we'd need to somehow make more top class riders available without it being unfair to someone. Which seems very difficult because people have different set-ups and tactics, and we can't mess with that without having given prior warning, as this is a long-term prediction game. Some have Froomes and Quintanas worth $100, and some have three riders worth $30-$35 instead. Some have opted for many long-term contracts while some have done the opposite. So how exactly would we enforce rules about releasing riders without messing with the game structure in an unfair manner? The simplest solution is to allow only 3 or 4 new teams to enter at once, if we want all ~20 managers to be competing on equal terms.

Restrictions regarding amount of conti level riders etc.: We had that in the beginning, but removed it because it was too much of a hassle to keep track of it manually during the draft.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Thursday 5.Oct 11:28, 2017
I'm a bit off-and-on right now due to work. Will start locking in new entrants from the weekend onwards, and then putting my mind solely towards how best to integrate them.

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Thursday 5.Oct 11:19, 2017
I see your point Epo.
What i was thinking were about 25 riders teams, starting the draft with 18, this way each current team were "forced" to release 12 riders (+/-).

About Tomas concern, i feel i shouldn't say much. After all, this is my second season at SF only and i don't forget i started alongside with Trym, neko and boris, 4 new DS.
The question now is:
how many competitors is reasonable looking at wt and pro-conti pelotons?
how many riders each team should have?

P.S. While writing, crossed my mind one thing: makes any sense if we create a rule with a limited number of riders from each level?
I mean, something like 15 WT riders, 8 Pro Conti, 4 conti and 3 U23 outside professional teams.
We could also divide riders according the WT FC Ranking, providing that each team couldn't have more than 2 riders from Top50.

Or we can just let things run as K said.

Tomas [Second Coming] Wednesday 4.Oct 23:58, 2017
Still the most important thingy for introducing new players into an ongoing competition we are planning to run for years to come, is that they are sure they REALLY wanna join the gang, and not just try it to see if they like it.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Wednesday 4.Oct 21:21, 2017
i think the best will be to just let them start from the bottom. And let them use the first season to get a team who can compete against the best.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Wednesday 4.Oct 21:13, 2017
About your suggestion Francisco:
The problem won't be the amount of riders, but the quality. If max limit is 18 then I'll just keep my 18 best and release the ones I don't really want anyway, and the new managers will still be scraping the bottom. They will have a lot of money to play with and can steal a lot, but they will end up with more overpaid riders than the old managers.

Assassin [TheTrueAssassins] Wednesday 4.Oct 19:43, 2017
#banter

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Wednesday 4.Oct 19:40, 2017
#Sagan176

Assassin [TheTrueAssassins] Wednesday 4.Oct 19:07, 2017
Anything Partykjepp organises always is easy to understand, think u will be fine.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Wednesday 4.Oct 18:16, 2017
Aragonite - I think you'll find any game at the behest of me always has a chance of being overcomplicated when I try to explain it. But honestly it's really simple once you pass the first couple of hurdles.

LosBrolin [JuhaMieto] Wednesday 4.Oct 17:30, 2017
it's very simple - you'll get a grip of it right away. Welcome ;)

Aragonite [TORA TORA TORA] Wednesday 4.Oct 14:26, 2017
Thinking about it. It can't be too complicated can it, all you lot can understand it. Right :)

Aragonite [TORA TORA TORA] Wednesday 4.Oct 14:22, 2017
This all seems rather complicated. Is it going to be easy for us newcomers to get a handle on this? Baring in mind the only auction/draft game I have ever played is the GT games on here.

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Wednesday 4.Oct 13:24, 2017
It would be nice now, too.

That's why there sould be something before the pre-draft to the current managers, deciding the number of riders and leaving big options to the new ones.

boris03 [Cycling lions] Wednesday 4.Oct 12:47, 2017
I remember when we were joining season fantasy we had pre-draft before trade period and we had chance to make trades with other managers... that was pretty cool and fair I think

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Wednesday 4.Oct 12:11, 2017
I was thinking we could start the draft ALL with 18 riders to complete a team of 25 after closing 7 rounds.

Then, i verified the teams and i saw Logreid has 19 under contract, Remi 19, Assassin 25 and Ritlefant 20, also Kristian K with 18.

My idea was we started the draft with the riders under 2018's contract plus a few extended but not exceding 18.

This way all the teams would release several riders wich together with Protours team and the current unattached riders would give to new managers plenty of field to begin...


zKobalt [FruitnOats] Wednesday 4.Oct 12:04, 2017
With daylight saving, that is 2am :(

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Wednesday 4.Oct 11:15, 2017
It's such a big expansion that in some ways a total reset would be the most fair thing, but I think most users would object to that plus draft would literally take ages :)

I'll be back with some options as soon as new users are locked down.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Wednesday 4.Oct 11:07, 2017
zkobalt, aragonite, fjellda, johnjackjoe, nathan, sker

So... 6 people interested in joining and only 1 leaving. We've never had a situation like that before, so we need to think thoroughly about how it's best to solve it.

Protours will be releasing Froome, Nibali, Kittel and Cavendish. Other than them; mostly lesser riders.
But, some expensive riders will also be released from the teams that are staying. I assume boris will release Tom Dumoulin for eample.

Maybe the deadline for contract renewals should be before new year so we can better see what we're dealing with in terms of riders available for the new managers. The new managers and the old ones should be on as equal terms as possible.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Wednesday 4.Oct 10:22, 2017
I'm a bit worried about timezone-issues for the draft - what does 17:00 CEST translate into for you?

zKobalt [FruitnOats] Wednesday 4.Oct 04:44, 2017
I would be keen to join for 2018, maybe there could be a WT and PC season fantasy structure as well to integrate the newer DS with existing DS.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Monday 2.Oct 21:36, 2017
Hyperinflation :D

Tomas [Second Coming] Monday 2.Oct 20:53, 2017
More players also means more money (wage) in play, making lots of other riders underpriced.

Aragonite [TORA TORA TORA] Monday 2.Oct 18:47, 2017
I'll give it a go, if there is riders to go round. Could be we would be scraping the barrel, if there were to be too many new teams.

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Monday 2.Oct 00:52, 2017
I believe Aragonite was interested in joining too

Assassin [TheTrueAssassins] Monday 2.Oct 00:14, 2017
Sounds like a plan Partyman

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Monday 2.Oct 00:07, 2017
The thought behind getting contract renewals done before transfer window for existing teams was contracts nominally expiring at the end of 2017 and thus finalizing rosters before the transfer window. Having the deadlines coincide means managers can fiddle with their extension/pay rises all up until draft window which is all fair. So let me revise:

I reckon as soon as the new Chinese WT-event (a.k.a. Tour de Clenbuterol 2) we'll open manager pages so people can announce renewals and releases for riders with contracts ending in 2017. Though they won't be transferred until January, managers are also free to announce trades from then on too. However, do remember that riders with a contract expiring in 2017 can't be traded in this window even though contract is extended as per rule instated this year (so that I don't extend with Rui Costa and then trade him for another rider and manager on other side of trade give him 75% of extended wage - locking the best riders in a system of fixed transfers).

New timeline:
As soon as final WT is completed: transfer window opens, 2017-contracts can be amended
The number of 2018-contracts which can be increased/extended in this window depends a bit on how many new managers are joining
January 5th - 17:00 CET: transfer and contract window closes. Pre-draft for the new managers joining. Shouldn't take more than a few hours to complete
January 5th - 19:00ish CET: draft for all managers

Team Protours is out, I'll get in touch with Trym in due time to figure out if he's able/wants to continue. I reckon the rest of us will press on too, but will double check with everyone.

We currently have:
Fjellda
Triple-J
NateDawg

As certain new managers, plus possibly FruitnOats and sker. There are also a couple of users who've previously show interest. I'm open to introducing up to 6 new managers, an expansion to 22 at most seems manageble. How to introduce new teams depend on how many are joining, so I'll try to lock that in before putting more thoughts and proposals in.

So, likely and possible new entrants - the game is pretty simple (until it gets complicated). General rules:

You have a budget of 400 units and put together a squad of between 20 to 30 riders
Riders score points through the FC-formula, meaning Jonathan Castroviejo has scored 810 points for me this year
However, each wage unit costs 5 points per half season, meaning at 9 wage his net score for me is (810 - 2*(5*9))=720
Teams are ranked by their net score, so finding bargains who score points on a low wage is important

Riders logistics:
There are two transfer and drafts window each year. One in early January, second in early June.
In the first half, managers can trade riders between them - only restriction is that a rider has to be on at least 75% of his original wage on the new team.
Managers can also increase/extend the wages of a set number of riders in these
IMPORTANT: Second half is the draft, which takes place from Friday evening CET through the weekend. Managers are required to have their computer at hand, be ready if texted, or send picks to another manager if they can't attend
In this draft, managers can sign unattached riders or steal from other teams if they double the riders current wage
Special rules for U23-riders, their current wage has to be quadrupled to steal
Riders are given either 1 or 2-year contracts
If a manager wants to extend/renew a contract - a 1-year renewal is required to be at least 15% over current wage, 25% for a 2-year renewal

There are some more rules for special situations, but this is the general framework. Some more details here - and just post questions here or via message to me:
http://firstcycling.com/fcfrules.php

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Thursday 28.Sep 22:45, 2017
How to introduce new manager with different possitibilites of pre-draft depends of how many are joining. Looks like there's a possibility we can hit 20-22 teams if we want.

I'm a bit pressed for time right now, but will be back to answer those who've posted interest in joining and a quick presentation then. Fjellda wants to join too #TeamVeganPower

sker [Team Paracarri] Thursday 28.Sep 21:32, 2017
Might be interested to join if there is a place available. However I would need some more info on how it works

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Thursday 28.Sep 20:41, 2017
Probably no point since a lof of good riders available. The issue in american sports are that all the best rider and the top prospecy allready is picked

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 28.Sep 20:36, 2017
If Protours/Kristian is leaving then some very good riders will be available. Nibali, Froome, Cavendish, Kittel.

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Thursday 28.Sep 20:14, 2017
New teams; Tomas told me when American sports adds new team they can choose 1 or 2 players from each teams, but that each teams can pick some players as non-pickable. Idea to do it here also so that the teams who is at the bottom still get good riders to choose between? And the wages than has to be the same as they already are on.

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Thursday 28.Sep 13:12, 2017
Haha EPO, the world is bigger than your pond...

Erythropoietin [Erythropoietin] Thursday 28.Sep 13:04, 2017
Roglic's wage will be almost doubled, so good luck with that

ritlefant [Ritlefant] Thursday 28.Sep 13:02, 2017
As long as I can steal any Colombian ;-)

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Thursday 28.Sep 12:36, 2017
I'll be back with comments and instructions over the weekend. Would also like to point out I want dibs on that Slovene we've discussed, Ritle ;)

ritlefant [Ritlefant] Wednesday 27.Sep 17:10, 2017
Will continue hopefully making a better team.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Wednesday 27.Sep 14:34, 2017
But the pre-draft should be done before all this so they can be able to join the trade season if they want.

Kristian-K [Green Bullet Cycling] Wednesday 27.Sep 14:24, 2017
Transfers and contract renewals should be at the same time.

zKobalt [FruitnOats] Wednesday 27.Sep 14:12, 2017
How to join?

Nathan [CT Glory] Wednesday 27.Sep 13:42, 2017
I'd love to compete next season :)

Francisco [K92-Team Neverland] Wednesday 27.Sep 12:57, 2017
As said before, K92 HQ already working hard.
Several renewals to work on and also some places to replace.

P.S. Being very emotive these days with some riders claiming for a new opportunity and other asking for a more visible and important place inside Team K92-União Ciclista.
Not easy to deal with both at same time, heart and reason but DS Francisco hoping to achieve good result. :)

johnjackjoe [JohnJackJoe Racing] Wednesday 27.Sep 12:38, 2017
I'd be interested in this format. A long-term fantasy manager seems fun :)

Andy [Luxembourg Finest] Wednesday 27.Sep 10:27, 2017
What about having deadline at the transfer window at same time as contract renewals and after that having draft?

Logreid [JohnGadretPartykjepp] Wednesday 27.Sep 09:48, 2017
Contract renewals open until midnight Dec 31st
Transfer window Jan 1st - 17:00 CEST Jan 5th
Superdraft Jan 5th 17:00 CEST through Jan 7th, any remaining picks done whenever people can from Jan 8th onwards

Participating managers:
From what I've gathered from Tomasz, Team Protours.no will unwind after this season after plans to finance the team through Pippo Pozzato smugling cocaine from Tour de Langkawi failed due to a saddle sore (erhm).
Steinvik will continue has promised to shape up.
Haven't seen Trym around after his eye surgery in the spring, but he'll definitely be offered to stay on if he's able to

Would be nice if remaining managers can confirm in this thread whether they're looking to push on for 2018.

So we have 16 managers currently, and I'm thinking everything up to 20 is good. I know Nathan is looking to join, Aragonite, Germany's big manager triple-J, Tank and bst has been muted as well.

If you're interested to join, post here or message me if you want more info. There will be a pre-draft for new managers where you get a set amount of drafts before the remaining managers join the action.

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